*From: Paul Förster *Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 22:53:06 +0200 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi, there used to be a thing called the "PET Beeper". See here: http://rick-melick.blogspot.ch/2013/01/my-personal-electronic-transactor.html This small device would be plugged between the cassette connector of the computer and a datasette and would produce a small beep whenever a program was found on cassette or when loading ended. I think it would produce that beep whenever the motor stopped, but that's only my personal guess. Anyway, does anybody know if there are any schematics around? I didn't find any but would love to have such a thing. It would be very handy when loading long programs from datasette because you wouldn't actively have to wait and watch again and again but rather do something else and just wait for the beep. :-) -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@xxxxxxx * From: not@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Computer Nerd Kev) * Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 23:07:46 +0000 (UTC) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If the original schematics can't be found, it should be quite easy to design if it works on the motor control as you suspect. For building a new one, you'd ideally want to get a PCB made for it so that you could plug the Datasette connector into it, like with the original. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# . *From: Paul Förster *Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:09:57 +0200 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Kev, On 2014-08-09 23:07:46 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: >If the original schematics can't be found, it should be quite easy to >design if it works on the motor control as you suspect. well, at least that's how I understood the one page leaflet on that website. I think it just beeps once whenever the motor stops, which would IMHO suffice to get the desired effect. But then, I'm not that much a hardware guru that I could design such a thing. -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@xxxxxxx * From: not@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Computer Nerd Kev) * Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 23:22:34 +0000 (UTC) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul F?rster wrote: On 2014-08-09 23:07:46 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: >If the original schematics can't be found, it should be quite easy to >design if it works on the motor control as you suspect. >well, at least that's how I understood the one page leaflet on that >website. I think it just beeps once whenever the motor stops, which >would IMHO suffice to get the desired effect. But then, I'm not that >much a hardware guru that I could design such a thing. I sketched this yesterday: http://www.computernerdkev.heliohost.org/tapebeep.gif It has lots of options. The simple version is very easy to build and could be built "point-to-point" without a prototypeing board or PCB. The problem with it is that you need to manually turn it off to stop it buzzing when the file has loaded, so you then need to turn it on again once another file begins to load. The "trigger" sections of the more complicated versions are on the left of the page. "Timer" keeps the sound going for a period of 3 or 4 seconds, "Latch" runs it until someone comes over and presses a button to disable it, but will still turn it on again next time the motor goes from running to stopped. The output options are either a Buzzer (Don't need the diode if you buy a "pizo buzzer", but make sure you avoid buying a "pizo transducer" or the like as these need additional circuitry to make a buzz (which is built in with a "pizo buzzer"). or (as in the 70s device) an oscillator with a speaker, the frequency of which can be varied by adjusting VR1 (again like the 70s device). I expect the original device worked as this would with the "Timer" and "Speaker OUT" options used. Sounding for a few seconds after every load. None of these circuits have been tested by me, or particularly well looked over (also, I wasn't looking at the computer schematics when I did them, so there could be a very obvious flaw). Still, they should be in the right direction and if you build one, I'd love to hear about it. If you build one with the "Speaker Output", you can use a NE556 Dual Timer instead of two 555s. Here is my reference for the Datasette pinout, it includes wire colours: http://old.pinouts.ru/Storage/petdatasette_pinout.shtml -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# . *From: Paul Förster *Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 15:09:29 +0200 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Kev, On 2014-08-10 23:22:34 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: >I sketched this yesterday: >http://www.computernerdkev.heliohost.org/tapebeep.gif thanks very much. :) >The "trigger" sections of the more complicated versions are on the left of >the page. "Timer" keeps the sound going for a period of 3 or 4 seconds, that would be cool. >I expect the original device worked as this would with the "Timer" and >"Speaker OUT" options used. Sounding for a few seconds after every load. that's how I understood it too, yes. None of these circuits have been tested by me, or particularly well looked over (also, I wasn't looking at the computer schematics when I did them, so there could be a very obvious flaw). Still, they should be in the right direction and if you build one, I'd love to hear about it. I tried to put the "Timer" in iCircuit but I can't get it to work there. :-/ Also, the caps' values are hard to read in your sketch. So, I guess, I either chose the wrong values or there actually is a flaw. iCircuit keeps power flowing from the 6VDC motor line to the 5VDC VCC line over the diode. Nothing else happens. If I break the 6VDC motor line by a switch, then power flows over the 47uF cap from 5VDC to ground. That's all that happens there. No output on the OUT pin if the NE555. -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@xxxxxxx ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul F?rster wrote: > Hi Kev, > > On 2014-08-10 23:22:34 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: > >> None of these circuits have been tested by me, or particularly well looked >> over (also, I wasn't looking at the computer schematics when I did them, so >> there could be a very obvious flaw). Still, they should be in the right >> direction and if you build one, I'd love to hear about it. > > I tried to put the "Timer" in iCircuit but I can't get it to work > there. :-/ Also, the caps' values are hard to read in your sketch. So, > I guess, I either chose the wrong values or there actually is a flaw. > iCircuit keeps power flowing from the 6VDC motor line to the 5VDC VCC > line over the diode. Nothing else happens. If I break the 6VDC motor > line by a switch, then power flows over the 47uF cap from 5VDC to > ground. That's all that happens there. No output on the OUT pin if the > NE555. Oh yeah, I forgot to put the value of the cap that's inline with the motor power in. It should be 10nF (it's the same as C1 in the "Latch" part). Current shouldn't flow from the capacitor through D1, that should be impossible. I've used a similar input circuit before, not on two different voltages though. When the motor power goes from on to off, there should be a negative charge across the capacitor which should trigger the 555 to make a positive pulse on pin three for the duration (3.3s) determined by C2 and R2. The negative pulse on C1 should quickly be discharged by R1. When the tape motor is turned on, the cap will generate a positive pulse at pin 2, this will be discharged by D1 to 5VDC (which actually would be better connected to the motor 6V instead of 5V to avoid positive pulses on 5V). Does iCircuit (not that I've ever heard of that program before) know the 6v motor supply is unregulated, in that case some current might flow as a esult of the voltage ripple. Also I assumed the 6V supply had filter caps on it in the computer, if not the circuit won't work at all. The simulator won't be a sure indication that the circuit will work though. Is it SPICE based? Sorry to be so semi-helpful with all this, but I don't have the time at the moment to really do this properly. Maybe on the weekend I might have time, or another week. The cap values are: C1=10nF, C2=10uF, C3=10nF, C4=22uF, C5=10nF. Just in case, don't connect C2 to pin 2 of the 555. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Kev, On 2014-08-11 22:57:26 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: > Oh yeah, I forgot to put the value of the cap that's inline with the motor > power in. It should be 10nF (it's the same as C1 in the "Latch" part). ack. > Current shouldn't flow from the capacitor through D1, that should be > impossible. I've used a similar input circuit before, not on two > different voltages though. > > When the motor power goes from on to off, there should be a negative > charge across the capacitor which should trigger the 555 to make a > positive pulse on pin three for the duration (3.3s) determined by C2 > and R2. The negative pulse on C1 should quickly be discharged by R1. > > When the tape motor is turned on, the cap will generate a positive pulse > at pin 2, this will be discharged by D1 to 5VDC (which actually would be > better connected to the motor 6V instead of 5V to avoid positive pulses on > 5V). ok. > Does iCircuit (not that I've ever heard of that program before) know the > 6v motor supply is unregulated, in that case some current might flow as a > esult of the voltage ripple. Also I assumed the 6V supply had filter caps > on it in the computer, if not the circuit won't work at all. here's iCircuit: https://itunes.apple.com/ch/app/icircuit/id454347770 It's a Mac program that allows beginners (like me :) to draw, test and experiment with simple circuits. I know what a resistor and a cap is, that a diode blocks in one direction and simple stuff like that. So iCircuit is the right program for me. :-) As far as I know it treats everything as clinical, so a 6 VDC source is that, 6 VDC, not 5.97 and not 6.02, it's 6. You get the idea... > The simulator won't be a sure indication that the circuit will work though. > Is it SPICE based? I don't know whether iCircuit is SPICE based or not (had to look up SPICE). For me as a dummy user, it's just an easy to use (aside from its graphical quirks) program to draw circuits, put them under power and see whether it works. :-) > Sorry to be so semi-helpful with all this, but I don't have the time at the > moment to really do this properly. Maybe on the weekend I might have time, or > another week. nah, no prob. Actually, I didn't expect anyone to come up with a drawing at all. At my state of knowledge, I can physically build a circuit that I have a drawing of. What I can't do is design the circuit. I'm good for soldering, but not for designing. > The cap values are: > C1=10nF, C2=10uF, C3=10nF, C4=22uF, C5=10nF. > Just in case, don't connect C2 to pin 2 of the 555. thanks for the values. Here's what I did in iCircuit: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fije7m45i3rz1ol/TapeBeeper.png The meaning of the motor switch is just to activate and deactivate the 6V (motor) line to trigger the output of the NE555. I put a virtual scope on the OUT pin of the NE555 and there is no change, whether I flip the switch or not. Did I do anything wrong? I would have expected a ca. 3 sec voltage change on the OUT pin to trigger the speaker circuit but it remains at 0 V all the time. -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From not@telling.you.invalid Tue Nov 4 17:47:13 2014 Path: aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:51:00 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 3hgNjk8/OmlLMqP54thMIQ.user.speranza.aioe.org X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i586)) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14090 Paul F?rster wrote: > Hi Kev, > > On 2014-08-11 22:57:26 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: >> Oh yeah, I forgot to put the value of the cap that's inline with the motor >> power in. It should be 10nF (it's the same as C1 in the "Latch" part). > > thanks for the values. Here's what I did in iCircuit: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/fije7m45i3rz1ol/TapeBeeper.png > > The meaning of the motor switch is just to activate and deactivate the > 6V (motor) line to trigger the output of the NE555. I put a virtual > scope on the OUT pin of the NE555 and there is no change, whether I > flip the switch or not. Did I do anything wrong? I would have expected > a ca. 3 sec voltage change on the OUT pin to trigger the speaker > circuit but it remains at 0 V all the time. I think I see the problem. Put a 1K resistor to GND after the switch (betweeen it and C1). This isn't required in the real circuit because you have the tape drive motor bringing the 6V line to GND when it is turned off, the resistor will fill in for the motor that is missing in the simulated circuit. This is the sort of problem you get with simulating sub-sets of larger circuits. In the real circuit, it would be best to have D1 going to 6V instead of 5V as well (to prevent pulses on the regulated 5V line), but in the simulated world it shouldn't be a problem. I'll put up a tapebeep2.gif with this change when I get the chance. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From not@telling.you.invalid Tue Nov 4 17:48:28 2014 Path: aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 23:25:39 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 88 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 3hgNjk8/OmlLMqP54thMIQ.user.speranza.aioe.org X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i586)) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14106 Paul F?rster wrote: > Hi Kev, > > On 2014-08-16 00:00:26 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: >> I use LTspice, but it did take me a few hours to figure it out at first, >> and I'm still no expert. I build a real circuit where I can. > > there's even a Mac version! :-) Can I get some file out of LTspice that > I can take to a company that does PCBs, including auto-routing traces > and such stuff? I can't do that with iCircuit unfortunately which is > kind of limiting if I want to build my boards. Unforunately I believe you can't. I might be wrong, but I remember looking it up and then deciding to re-do a scematic in another program to feed into a PCB program, so there must be some sort of problem. KiCAD and Eagle are a couple of notable free programs that can do the job. They have both "Schematic Capture" and PCB Design systems. They can also do auto-routing, but you'll need to put the time into figuring out how they work. I make one-off circuits on Veroboard (for this, you'd have to cut the wires going to the tape drive connector to get the circuit in without a PCB with an edge connector). There are a lot of ways out there. > ok, I reset the values according to your specs which gives me a 500 Hz > sound with VA1=50k. > > I also renamed all caps and resistors to have a unique number, which is > required by iCircuit. If I specify a non-unique number, then it > automatically adds a "1", which I hate. I also added the comments about > VA1, which is now R5, to possibly be a 100k varistor and added a type > to D1. Here's my new drawing: > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/fije7m45i3rz1ol/TapeBeeper.png Looks nice. I only put the variable resistor in to match the original device, I don't really know whay you'd want to vary the tone. >> I'm pretty sure it will. The machine gun sound is probably the software, >> unless you can see the signal on IC2's pin 4 changing rapidly at the same >> time. > > from its errant behavior I take it that it's indeed the software. Seems > to be some audio init problem, I don't know. Once it's done one or two > stuttering beeping phases, it runs a steady beep as I would expect. OK. >> I know a circuit to make a great machine gun sound with a 555 if you're >> interested. :) > > hmm, just for the fun of it, I did this: > https://www.dropbox.com/s/uyw1kq8x07w7iyt/MachineGun.png > > It triggers the speaker at a steady 14.49 Hz, which to me sounds more > or less like a machine gun. :-P Nice, though the circuit I was thinking of was a bit more complex. It's on this page: http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/50%20-%20555%20Circuits/50%20-%20555%20Circuits.html I don't know how your simulator will like it, but I built it on a breadboard out of curiosity and was surprised how brilliantly it worked. You really couldn't ask for a more typical machine gun sound. >> I've uploaded the revised version, the most important changes are actually >> with the "Simple" circuit (silly me). It's at the old link: >> http://www.computernerdkev.heliohost.org/tapebeep.gif >> The previous version is at: >> http://www.computernerdkev.heliohost.org/tapebeep-old.gif > > still, the values are close to unreadable to me, but that may be due to > the scan resolution, I don't know. I have difficulty reading your > values. Anyway, now I know them I included them into my drawing anyway > so everything is fine on my part. Thanks very much again. :-) The scan resolution seems fine to me, perhaps it's the way you're viewing it (maybe printing it out would help). Of course I did it as a basic sketch so it's not the clearest it could be, and I can't deny that my writing isn't much chop. In any case you got all the right values in the end. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:48:35 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 22:25:21 +0200 Lines: 57 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net UNeP3J/IoaP2oCg94+2/Lgfl94m2/nal2Foah50a689a/9nQ== Cancel-Lock: sha1:jcfGi2pqzL3rGNyCTJR4Mn/FWjk= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14111 Hi Kev, On 2014-08-16 23:25:39 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: > Unforunately I believe you can't. I might be wrong, but I remember looking > it up and then deciding to re-do a scematic in another program to feed into > a PCB program, so there must be some sort of problem. hmmm, ok. > KiCAD and Eagle are a couple of notable free programs that can do the job. > They have both "Schematic Capture" and PCB Design systems. They can also do > auto-routing, but you'll need to put the time into figuring out how they > work. that's one of my main problems: time :-( KiCAD for Mac is experimental and Eagle is not exactly cheap. I know there's a free Eagle, but is it crippled other than the board size limit? > I make one-off circuits on Veroboard (for this, you'd have to cut the wires > going to the tape drive connector to get the circuit in without a PCB with > an edge connector). There are a lot of ways out there. I have veroboards lying around here, but they are for experimenting. I wouldn't want to use it for a "final product". > Looks nice. I only put the variable resistor in to match the original > device, I don't really know whay you'd want to vary the tone. did the original have a varistor there? I must admit I haven't read the flyer there. I'll take a look at the flyer. > Nice, though the circuit I was thinking of was a bit more complex. It's on > this page: > > http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/50%20-%20555%20Circuits/50%20-%20555%20Circuits.html > > > I don't know how your simulator will like it, but I built it on a breadboard > out of curiosity and was surprised how brilliantly it worked. You really > couldn't ask for a more typical machine gun sound. sounds funny. iCircuit makes it output a 1.3 kHz beep. Then, did you build mine too? How's the sound in comparison? > The scan resolution seems fine to me, perhaps it's the way you're viewing it > (maybe printing it out would help). Of course I did it as a basic sketch so > it's not the clearest it could be, and I can't deny that my writing isn't > much chop. In any case you got all the right values in the end. I tried printing it, but well, no, I can't read them fully. Anyway, I got the values so it's fine now, thanks. :-) -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From not@telling.you.invalid Tue Nov 4 17:48:41 2014 Path: aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 22:45:33 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 57 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 3hgNjk8/OmlLMqP54thMIQ.user.speranza.aioe.org X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i586)) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14118 Paul F?rster wrote: > Hi Kev, > > On 2014-08-16 23:25:39 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: > >> KiCAD and Eagle are a couple of notable free programs that can do the job. >> They have both "Schematic Capture" and PCB Design systems. They can also do >> auto-routing, but you'll need to put the time into figuring out how they >> work. > > that's one of my main problems: time :-( KiCAD for Mac is experimental > and Eagle is not exactly cheap. I know there's a free Eagle, but is it > crippled other than the board size limit? I don't believe so. I mainly use KiCAD (which admittedly has its bugs), but I believe the board size limit is the only major issue for a basic hobby layout. >> I make one-off circuits on Veroboard (for this, you'd have to cut the wires >> going to the tape drive connector to get the circuit in without a PCB with >> an edge connector). There are a lot of ways out there. > > I have veroboards lying around here, but they are for experimenting. I > wouldn't want to use it for a "final product". > >> Looks nice. I only put the variable resistor in to match the original >> device, I don't really know whay you'd want to vary the tone. > > did the original have a varistor there? I must admit I haven't read the > flyer there. I'll take a look at the flyer. The webpage that started all this says: "It had a little clip for a speaker and a tone control as shown (in blue)" At the bottom right of the picture is a blue potentiometer. It's a different style to most of the mdoern ones nowadays, but I've got a few like that. >> Nice, though the circuit I was thinking of was a bit more complex. It's on >> this page: >> >> http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/50%20-%20555%20Circuits/50%20-%20555%20Circuits.html >> >> >> I don't know how your simulator will like it, but I built it on a breadboard >> out of curiosity and was surprised how brilliantly it worked. You really >> couldn't ask for a more typical machine gun sound. > > sounds funny. iCircuit makes it output a 1.3 kHz beep. Then, did you > build mine too? How's the sound in comparison? I'm afraid I don't really have to time to play around with these circuits at the moment, I built the "Talkng Electronics" design towards the start of the year on a breadboard. The parts I used have probably been soldered in all sorts of things by now. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:48:48 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 18:30:38 +0200 Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net yEoqdwOOXc26FLC+1gVnJg6aZMFgBWNMpDBpyLlDVQCGk96g== Cancel-Lock: sha1:XbmgNskM7Tgfo4FonbxJqfmuwmc= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14123 Hi Kev, On 2014-08-19 22:45:33 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: > I don't believe so. I mainly use KiCAD (which admittedly has its bugs), but I > believe the board size limit is the only major issue for a basic hobby layout. does KiCAD have a board size limit too? I thougt, only Eagle has. > The webpage that started all this says: > "It had a little clip for a speaker and a tone control as shown (in blue)" > > At the bottom right of the picture is a blue potentiometer. It's a different > style to most of the mdoern ones nowadays, but I've got a few like that. I looked at it again and noticed that too now. Well, I'll change that then to be as close to the original as possible. By the way, the paper also talks about an AUX-IN line which also can be seen on the picture of the board. I wonder what that is. Is that merely a pass through of pin D of the cassette port for external access? > I'm afraid I don't really have to time to play around with these circuits > at the moment, I built the "Talkng Electronics" design towards the start of > the year on a breadboard. The parts I used have probably been soldered in all > sorts of things by now. don't bother. I was just curious. Not that I'd want to build such a machine gun circuit anyway. :) -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From not@telling.you.invalid Tue Nov 4 17:48:54 2014 Path: aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 22:04:37 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 3hgNjk8/OmlLMqP54thMIQ.user.speranza.aioe.org X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i586)) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14125 Paul F?rster wrote: > Hi Kev, > > On 2014-08-19 22:45:33 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: >> I don't believe so. I mainly use KiCAD (which admittedly has its bugs), but I >> believe the board size limit is the only major issue for a basic hobby layout. > > does KiCAD have a board size limit too? I thougt, only Eagle has. Nah, I just mentioned that I use KiCAD to show why I have limited knowledge of Eagle's limitations. I don't believe there would be any problem designing a PCB for this in either program. >> The webpage that started all this says: >> "It had a little clip for a speaker and a tone control as shown (in blue)" >> >> At the bottom right of the picture is a blue potentiometer. It's a different >> style to most of the mdoern ones nowadays, but I've got a few like that. > > I looked at it again and noticed that too now. Well, I'll change that > then to be as close to the original as possible. > > By the way, the paper also talks about an AUX-IN line which also can be > seen on the picture of the board. I wonder what that is. Is that merely > a pass through of pin D of the cassette port for external access? Can't get the PDF to load on the PC I'm using, but I could only assume that it's an external trigger for either the "Timer" section or just the buzzer on its own. The original might have been built differently though, so I'm not sure. P.S. I'll be quite busy for the next few days, so I might be rather slow responding on here. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From as@sci.fi Tue Nov 4 17:49:00 2014 Path: aioe.org!newsfeed1.swip.net!newsfeed2.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!news.utu.fi!news.cc.tut.fi!not-for-mail From: Anssi Saari Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:44:27 +0300 Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: coffee.modeemi.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: news.cc.tut.fi 1408722299 20975 2001:708:310:3430:213:21ff:fe1b:b396 (22 Aug 2014 15:44:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@tut.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 15:44:59 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.3 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:gcnkCkI9/V22y7407dkg02cPV44= Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14127 not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) writes: > > Nah, I just mentioned that I use KiCAD to show why I have limited > knowledge of Eagle's limitations. I don't believe there would be any > problem designing a PCB for this in either program. Yeah. Eagle limitations are OK for simple designs: - The useable board area is limited to 100 x 80 mm (4 x 3.2 inches). - Only two signal layers can be used (Top and Bottom). - The schematic editor can only create one sheet. KiCAD's limitations, since it's free software, are more along the lines of what can actually be manufactured. I don't have much experience with either, just very little Eagle a few years ago. An ethernet board for the old BeagleBoard which we never got around to assembling... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:49:07 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:41:04 +0200 Lines: 51 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net ZxSF0c2RlsMmaTOWq8sNFAhRRKXRCq311QX+az+tMAxjuZkQ== Cancel-Lock: sha1:oiJneTmzcMF9ltqMi2VLxJ4L8+I= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14126 Hi Kev, On 2014-08-21 22:04:37 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: > Can't get the PDF to load on the PC I'm using, but I could only assume > that it's an external trigger for either the "Timer" section or just the > buzzer on its own. The original might have been built differently though, > so I'm not sure. ok, I reworked and reorganized the whole thing a little. Here's what I have now: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cql0ulwo3urshii/AADFgfpyrWeXqYziBfaIWuTva Tape Beeper.gif Your hand-drawn schematics. Tape Beeper.cir Data file for iCircuit on Mac/iPhone/iPad. Tape Beeper.jpg Image of the original circuit board. Tape Beeper HUH Electronics.pdf Scan of the original HUH Electronics instructions that came with the Tape Beeper. Tape Beeper HUH Electronics.txt ASCII text version of the original HUH Electronics instructions that came with the Tape Beeper. Tape Beeper.png This is the Tape Beeper schematics as developed by you and put into proper graphics image and simulated by me. Note that I renamed the resistors in this image to match those of the original instructions, namely R2 and R5, where R5 actually is a resistor. Rsim is for simulation purposes only and replaces the motor load durin simulation. Unless we figure out what this 'AUX IN' thing is, this is pretty much the final version then. > P.S. I'll be quite busy for the next few days, so I might be rather slow > responding on here. answer, when you feel like it and don't if you don't feel like it. There's no obligation whatsoever. :-P -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From not@telling.you.invalid Tue Nov 4 17:49:14 2014 Path: aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 23:16:51 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 3hgNjk8/OmlLMqP54thMIQ.user.speranza.aioe.org X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i586)) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14129 Paul F?rster wrote: > Hi Kev, > > On 2014-08-21 22:04:37 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: >> Can't get the PDF to load on the PC I'm using, but I could only assume >> that it's an external trigger for either the "Timer" section or just the >> buzzer on its own. The original might have been built differently though, >> so I'm not sure. > > ok, I reworked and reorganized the whole thing a little. Here's what I > have now: > > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/cql0ulwo3urshii/AADFgfpyrWeXqYziBfaIWuTva Thanks, read the instructions. So the trimpot was for Volume, not Tone. An easy fix anyway. > Unless we figure out what this 'AUX IN' thing is, this is pretty much > the final version then. I think you can make it whatever you feel is most useful. This will never be a 1:1 copy anyway, without the original to reference. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:49:21 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 14:00:55 +0200 Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net V3ZQmUEtSjP9yY1ZapAAjQMQ5y4jVYtJEo6/F61zPl0h+3RA== Cancel-Lock: sha1:il5fQtYwzk3pDATCIuVvk5QV4iw= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14132 Hi Kev, On 2014-08-26 23:16:51 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: >> Unless we figure out what this 'AUX IN' thing is, this is pretty much >> the final version then. > > I think you can make it whatever you feel is most useful. This will never be > a 1:1 copy anyway, without the original to reference. well, looking at the photo, it appears that the AUX IN merely is a connector to C-3, which then would explain the section in the instructions: THE 'AUX IN' INPUT MAY BE USED BY CONNECTING A JUMPER BETWEEN THE BEEPER BOARD AND THE MOTOR CONTROL LINE OF THE CASSETTE #2 CONNECTOR AT THE REAR OF THE PET. IF NO RECORDER IS PRESENT A 470 OHM RESISTOR MUST BE CONNECTED FROM THE MOTOR LINE TO GROUND TO SIMULATE THE MOTOR LOAD. I wonder, though, if it's just a plain connection or if it is processed somewhere. The trace on the board in the picture seems to just run from the front of the board below the two green caps directly to C-3 of the tape connector. But the picture isn't too good so it's not 100% clearly visible. This would mean that the meaning of the AUX IN is merely to connect the optional 470 Ohm resistor as stated in the instructions. Could that be? I'm not 100% sure. -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From not@telling.you.invalid Tue Nov 4 17:49:29 2014 Path: aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 23:04:54 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 3hgNjk8/OmlLMqP54thMIQ.user.speranza.aioe.org X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i586)) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14133 Paul F?rster wrote: > > I wonder, though, if it's just a plain connection or if it is processed > somewhere. The trace on the board in the picture seems to just run from > the front of the board below the two green caps directly to C-3 of the > tape connector. But the picture isn't too good so it's not 100% clearly > visible. This would mean that the meaning of the AUX IN is merely to > connect the optional 470 Ohm resistor as stated in the instructions. > Could that be? I'm not 100% sure. I guess it might make sense to have a contact you can tap into on the motor power line without messing up the edge connectors. Don't know why they didn't just put the extra resistor on the board and use a jumper to enable it if the user wanted. Maybe they were trying hard to make this thing as cheaply as they could. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From not@telling.you.invalid Tue Nov 4 17:47:23 2014 Path: aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2014 22:56:56 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 3hgNjk8/OmlLMqP54thMIQ.user.speranza.aioe.org X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i586)) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14091 Computer Nerd Kev wrote: > Paul F?rster wrote: >> Hi Kev, >> >> On 2014-08-11 22:57:26 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: > > I think I see the problem. Put a 1K resistor to GND after the switch > (betweeen it and C1). This isn't required in the real circuit because you > have the tape drive motor bringing the 6V line to GND when it is turned > off, the resistor will fill in for the motor that is missing in the simulated > circuit. > > This is the sort of problem you get with simulating sub-sets of larger > circuits. Hmm, and designing them. Put a diode in line with 6V in the "Simple" circuit to stop the circuit powering the motor from 5V through the buzzer and Q1. The diode Annode should face R1 and Q1, the Cathode connected to 6V. I'll put this in my revised version as well. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:49:36 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 01:20:39 +0200 Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net GE8boLIgkxJT17342Neu/QBPRnLptkADgLAZ1lMNFC9uQEig== Cancel-Lock: sha1:js/1EEEohFW5v2jVbiyjTIR+GcA= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14134 Hi Kev, On 2014-08-29 23:04:54 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: > I guess it might make sense to have a contact you can tap into on the > motor power line without messing up the edge connectors. I agree. > Don't know why they didn't just put the extra resistor on the board and > use a jumper to enable it if the user wanted. Maybe they were trying hard > to make this thing as cheaply as they could. if they really tried that, then they would have also saved a lot of board material. As can be easily seen in the picture, the board could be half the size it really was. :-) I'll put AUX IN into the drawing... -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dombo@disposable.invalid Tue Nov 4 17:49:43 2014 Path: aioe.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Dombo Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 11:04:50 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 09:03:20 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: mx05.eternal-september.org; posting-host="294ad6e308991f6d21106d5b43d6bd5e"; logging-data="6573"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/HD1ihOIwL40HGaJZwSUY4" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 In-Reply-To: Cancel-Lock: sha1:zYdhUGUxJEM0evm59g8vGXXkkv8= Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14108 Op 16-Aug-14 21:50, Paul Förster schreef: > Hi Kev, > > On 2014-08-16 00:00:26 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: >> I use LTspice, but it did take me a few hours to figure it out at first, >> and I'm still no expert. I build a real circuit where I can. > > there's even a Mac version! :-) Can I get some file out of LTspice that > I can take to a company that does PCBs, including auto-routing traces > and such stuff? I can't do that with iCircuit unfortunately which is > kind of limiting if I want to build my boards. You could export the netlist from LTSpice and import it into the PCB program. However netlists only contains information about how the components are connected, but does not say anything about packaging, footprints and other information needed for PCB design. For small circuits the most practical solution would be to redraw the schematic in whatever schematic capture tool that is compatible with the PCB design program. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:49:49 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 22:28:54 +0200 Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net b31UxTX4ouMHVq9PwkdkTQOpERDtlCI8y3mFF2e3kba4hB2g== Cancel-Lock: sha1:WhAMCFKItglQjbETBrqDg5TZBfM= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14112 Hi Dombo, On 2014-08-17 09:04:50 +0000, Dombo said: > You could export the netlist from LTSpice and import it into the PCB > program. However netlists only contains information about how the > components are connected, but does not say anything about packaging, > footprints and other information needed for PCB design. For small > circuits the most practical solution would be to redraw the schematic > in whatever schematic capture tool that is compatible with the PCB > design program. well, I may try KiCAD or Eagle (free). I haven't made my mind up. It's also not on my priority list. But from what I know, this is the only disadvantage a Mac has compared to Windows. Otherwise it only has advantages in my view. There seem to be more Windows programs out there to do that stuff. But Windows will never make it into my home. Linux, yes, but Windows? Never ever. :-P -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dombo@disposable.invalid Tue Nov 4 17:49:56 2014 Path: aioe.org!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Dombo Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 22:05:27 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 20:03:56 +0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: mx05.eternal-september.org; posting-host="294ad6e308991f6d21106d5b43d6bd5e"; logging-data="7677"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+uIjf72m+A/eL9zVyWCmUm" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130620 Thunderbird/17.0.7 In-Reply-To: Cancel-Lock: sha1:6+h5TS7x4ZmnWlEZFEeGtK3gxuk= Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14117 Op 18-Aug-14 22:28, Paul Förster schreef: > Hi Dombo, > > On 2014-08-17 09:04:50 +0000, Dombo said: >> You could export the netlist from LTSpice and import it into the PCB >> program. However netlists only contains information about how the >> components are connected, but does not say anything about packaging, >> footprints and other information needed for PCB design. For small >> circuits the most practical solution would be to redraw the schematic >> in whatever schematic capture tool that is compatible with the PCB >> design program. > > well, I may try KiCAD or Eagle (free). I haven't made my mind up. It's > also not on my priority list. But from what I know, this is the only > disadvantage a Mac has compared to Windows. Otherwise it only has > advantages in my view. There seem to be more Windows programs out there > to do that stuff. But Windows will never make it into my home. Linux, > yes, but Windows? Never ever. :-P You can always write your own, that would be the true Linux spirit. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:50:02 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 18:25:56 +0200 Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net fG06IlWV1HzhUP/N6oJzrwQ7EYU8n7ECOT8iSNowlOuUQP0w== Cancel-Lock: sha1:PEDfC4RZ2OBimSjhtWXMMQb/MWc= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14122 Hi Dombo, On 2014-08-19 20:05:27 +0000, Dombo said: > You can always write your own, that would be the true Linux spirit. I have a Mac. :-P And who pays my time? I have a job requiring way too much time to start such a big project as a hobby. Also, I do know way too little about electronics. So, a simulator part would be a no-go part for me anyway. -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:47:30 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 20:33:07 +0200 Lines: 45 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net PRkNHdzI8r8e/BxtsPNhqQmKru/ggmvzd/GQNOCNzStufWrg== Cancel-Lock: sha1:Od363rK4EW5MRfXMfxEkhBI77xo= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14093 Hi Kev, On 2014-08-12 22:51:00 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: >> Here's what I did in iCircuit: >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/fije7m45i3rz1ol/TapeBeeper.png > > I think I see the problem. Put a 1K resistor to GND after the switch > (betweeen it and C1). This isn't required in the real circuit because you > have the tape drive motor bringing the 6V line to GND when it is turned > off, the resistor will fill in for the motor that is missing in the simulated > circuit. > > This is the sort of problem you get with simulating sub-sets of larger > circuits. > > In the real circuit, it would be best to have D1 going to 6V instead of 5V > as well (to prevent pulses on the regulated 5V line), but in the simulated > world it shouldn't be a problem. I'll put up a tapebeep2.gif with this change > when I get the chance. ok, did as you said above. I updated the picture and will leave the 1K resistor out when building the real thing. Now, starting the simulation gives me 5V for a few secs on NE555.OUT which then returns to 0V after the few secs are over. I reduced R1 and R2 from 330k to 220k to shorten the interval from about 4 secs to 3 secs. Out of curiosity, is there a formula with R1 and R2 as input and the length of the output signal as a result? Anyway, this part looks good to me now. Btw., as long as I kept D1 in the old position, i.e. connected to 5V instead of 6V, the signal came when opening OR closing the switch. Now that it's connected to 6V, the signal comes only when opening the switch, which is better, as the motor *stop* should be the signal and not the motor start. On to simulating the beeper/speaker part... :-) Thanks very much, by the way. :-) -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From not@telling.you.invalid Tue Nov 4 17:47:39 2014 Path: aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 22:48:43 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 55 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 3hgNjk8/OmlLMqP54thMIQ.user.speranza.aioe.org X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i586)) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14095 Paul F?rster wrote: > > ok, did as you said above. I updated the picture and will leave the 1K > resistor out when building the real thing. It all looks right. > Now, starting the simulation gives me 5V for a few secs on NE555.OUT > which then returns to 0V after the few secs are over. I reduced R1 and > R2 from 330k to 220k to shorten the interval from about 4 secs to 3 > secs. Out of curiosity, is there a formula with R1 and R2 as input and > the length of the output signal as a result? Anyway, this part looks > good to me now. The time ought to be very close to the 3.3s in the simulator, it is determined by R2 and C2 (330,000R x .00001F = 3.3s). This timing period doesn't start until C1 has charged above 1/3rd the 555s supply voltage (5V), but with a 10nF cap that should be only a couple of miliseconds. The timing is just a matter of how long the beep lasts anyway, so I didn't view it as too critical (the timing will vary a bit in the real world anyway due to component value variation). You can make it half a second if you only want a quick "bip". > Btw., as long as I kept D1 in the old position, i.e. connected to 5V > instead of 6V, the signal came when opening OR closing the switch. Now > that it's connected to 6V, the signal comes only when opening the > switch, which is better, as the motor *stop* should be the signal and > not the motor start. This struck me as curious enough to bring out my breadboard. I tested out the input circuit (albiet with a transistor instead of a 555, but it should be close enough for this purpose), and it works fine with the diode either to 5V or 6V. Certainly I never had the transistor turn on (equivalent to the 555 being triggered) when the 6V was connected, only when it was taken away. Must be something funny with the simulation. But the Diode should go to 6V anyway to avoid messing with the regulated 5V line, so it doesn't really matter anyway. One thing that I did forget to mention, the circuit will beep once when the computer power is turned on because C1 has to charge up from 5V. I don't imagaine that will be terribly troublesome. > On to simulating the beeper/speaker part... :-) If that doesn't work then there really is something funny going on. > Thanks very much, by the way. :-) No worries. I'll upload the revised circuit when I get the time. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:47:49 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 22:53:10 +0200 Lines: 82 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net GiTiw2qSeoea6RBEddeB8Afm+9iBWfBrK9V4bmMprGxoLt9A== Cancel-Lock: sha1:Hh8r/93Dj2Kexu2R9QiBOTSSi/o= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14101 Hi Kev, On 2014-08-14 22:48:43 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: > It all looks right. good. :-) > The time ought to be very close to the 3.3s in the simulator, it is > determined by R2 and C2 (330,000R x .00001F = 3.3s). This timing period > doesn't start until C1 has charged above 1/3rd the 555s supply voltage > (5V), but with a 10nF cap that should be only a couple of miliseconds. thanks for the info. > The timing is just a matter of how long the beep lasts anyway, so I didn't > view it as too critical (the timing will vary a bit in the real world > anyway due to component value variation). You can make it half a second if > you only want a quick "bip". that's why I tried to set them both to 220k, which, according to your formula should be 2.2 secs, which is the way I like it. :) > This struck me as curious enough to bring out my breadboard. I tested out > the input circuit (albiet with a transistor instead of a 555, but it should > be close enough for this purpose), and it works fine with the diode either > to 5V or 6V. Certainly I never had the transistor turn on (equivalent to the > 555 being triggered) when the 6V was connected, only when it was taken away. > > Must be something funny with the simulation. But the Diode should go to 6V > anyway to avoid messing with the regulated 5V line, so it doesn't really > matter anyway. maybe it's iCircuit related, I don't know. Maybe it's an initialization issue with it. It has some bugs and quirks which I found yet and this may be one of them, though otherwise, for a beginner, I can definitely recomment it. However, a pro may sure use more advanced tools. > One thing that I did forget to mention, the circuit will beep once when the > computer power is turned on because C1 has to charge up from 5V. I don't > imagaine that will be terribly troublesome. That's ok. After all, peecees do that too. :-P > If that doesn't work then there really is something funny going on. well, yes, there was something funny going on which is why it took me so long to answer this post. I just couldn't make the speaker play a frequency nor a buzzer buzz until I found out that starting the simulation by hitting the run button works fine for a simulation, but not for sound output, maybe another thing. Closing the iCircuit window and double clicking the tape beeper circuit icon solves that by starting simulation mode automatically and making beepers beep and buzzers buzz. Another small weirdness I had to find out. Now that I know, it's annoying but at least I know how to get around that. Anyway, I built the speaker part. I don't know if I got the values right from your drawing, so I played around on my own. I set R3=470 Ohm, made VA1=5k, but used a resistor instead of a varistor because a simple resistor is easier to wire. Still, I labelled it VA1 so that you know which one I refer to. I set C4 to 100nF, C5 to 10nF, C6 to 100nF and R4 to 27 Ohm. I hope, I got that all right. Now, as soon as IC1 triggers the speaker section, I get a steady 1020 Hz at IC2.OUT. Sometimes, it sounds like a machine gun fire instead of a continuous beep, but that may be due to simulation again. Otherwise, I get the desired beep, at least in simulation. I hope, this works in the real world. :-) > No worries. I'll upload the revised circuit when I get the time. ok, let me know when you did it. I updated my picture too. It also contains the buzzer which can be connected alternatively or simulateously. iCircuit's buzzer symbol does not need D2, so I left that diode out of the sketch. I'd be cool if you could take a short look to verify I did it right. -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:47:56 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 22:59:01 +0200 Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net c0fhMxxDJpxn6XS7/oALKw6ckyE1ef2qSX6AT3FvyiKhHN1Q== Cancel-Lock: sha1:XCF6wkhPfmeEYywWOn5QsY2TXZI= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14102 Hi Kev, On 2014-08-15 20:53:10 +0000, Paul Förster said: > Anyway, I built the speaker part. erm, before any misunderstanding arises: "built" as in drew in iCircuit and ran the simulation, not built as taking real parts and putting them together. -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From not@telling.you.invalid Tue Nov 4 17:48:04 2014 Path: aioe.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 00:00:26 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server Lines: 66 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 3hgNjk8/OmlLMqP54thMIQ.user.speranza.aioe.org X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i586)) X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.8.2 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14103 Paul F?rster wrote: > Hi Kev, > > On 2014-08-14 22:48:43 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: > >> Must be something funny with the simulation. But the Diode should go to 6V >> anyway to avoid messing with the regulated 5V line, so it doesn't really >> matter anyway. > > maybe it's iCircuit related, I don't know. Maybe it's an initialization > issue with it. It has some bugs and quirks which I found yet and this > may be one of them, though otherwise, for a beginner, I can definitely > recomment it. However, a pro may sure use more advanced tools. I use LTspice, but it did take me a few hours to figure it out at first, and I'm still no expert. I build a real circuit where I can. > Anyway, I built the speaker part. I don't know if I got the values > right from your drawing, so I played around on my own. I set R3=470 > Ohm, made VA1=5k, but used a resistor instead of a varistor because a > simple resistor is easier to wire. Still, I labelled it VA1 so that you > know which one I refer to. I set C4 to 100nF, C5 to 10nF, C6 to 100nF > and R4 to 27 Ohm. I hope, I got that all right. Oh dear, I can't really say you did. R3=1K5, VR1=100K (yep, that was an R), C4=22nF, C5=10nF, C6=100uF, and R4=27R . The VR1 trimpot should be a 50K resistor to simulate it at the middle position. Nothing to stop you building your version though (except it will use a little bit more power). On the up side, I can't see anything wrong with your schematic. > Now, as soon as IC1 triggers the speaker section, I get a steady 1020 > Hz at IC2.OUT. Sometimes, it sounds like a machine gun fire instead of > a continuous beep, but that may be due to simulation again. Otherwise, > I get the desired beep, at least in simulation. I hope, this works in > the real world. :-) I'm pretty sure it will. The machine gun sound is probably the software, unless you can see the signal on IC2's pin 4 changing rapidly at the same time. I know a circuit to make a great machine gun sound with a 555 if you're interested. :) >> No worries. I'll upload the revised circuit when I get the time. > > ok, let me know when you did it. I updated my picture too. It also > contains the buzzer which can be connected alternatively or > simulateously. iCircuit's buzzer symbol does not need D2, so I left > that diode out of the sketch. I've uploaded the revised version, the most important changes are actually with the "Simple" circuit (silly me). It's at the old link: http://www.computernerdkev.heliohost.org/tapebeep.gif The previous version is at: http://www.computernerdkev.heliohost.org/tapebeep-old.gif > I'd be cool if you could take a short look to verify I did it right. Yep, it's fine. -- __ __ #_ < |\| |< _# ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:48:12 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 21:50:04 +0200 Lines: 70 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net zGJxBbysCirqjm+wHq61TwoUccCakkzsKS6PcPn0jBogJYbA== Cancel-Lock: sha1:XX8OtIoS+P5CpRf5rqZYBwPzBec= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14104 Hi Kev, On 2014-08-16 00:00:26 +0000, Computer Nerd Kev said: > I use LTspice, but it did take me a few hours to figure it out at first, > and I'm still no expert. I build a real circuit where I can. there's even a Mac version! :-) Can I get some file out of LTspice that I can take to a company that does PCBs, including auto-routing traces and such stuff? I can't do that with iCircuit unfortunately which is kind of limiting if I want to build my boards. > Oh dear, I can't really say you did. R3=1K5, VR1=100K (yep, that was an R), > C4=22nF, C5=10nF, C6=100uF, and R4=27R . The VR1 trimpot should be a 50K > resistor to simulate it at the middle position. > > Nothing to stop you building your version though (except it will use a little > bit more power). On the up side, I can't see anything wrong with your > schematic. ok, I reset the values according to your specs which gives me a 500 Hz sound with VA1=50k. I also renamed all caps and resistors to have a unique number, which is required by iCircuit. If I specify a non-unique number, then it automatically adds a "1", which I hate. I also added the comments about VA1, which is now R5, to possibly be a 100k varistor and added a type to D1. Here's my new drawing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fije7m45i3rz1ol/TapeBeeper.png > I'm pretty sure it will. The machine gun sound is probably the software, > unless you can see the signal on IC2's pin 4 changing rapidly at the same > time. from its errant behavior I take it that it's indeed the software. Seems to be some audio init problem, I don't know. Once it's done one or two stuttering beeping phases, it runs a steady beep as I would expect. > I know a circuit to make a great machine gun sound with a 555 if you're > interested. :) hmm, just for the fun of it, I did this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uyw1kq8x07w7iyt/MachineGun.png It triggers the speaker at a steady 14.49 Hz, which to me sounds more or less like a machine gun. :-P > I've uploaded the revised version, the most important changes are actually > with the "Simple" circuit (silly me). It's at the old link: > http://www.computernerdkev.heliohost.org/tapebeep.gif > The previous version is at: > http://www.computernerdkev.heliohost.org/tapebeep-old.gif still, the values are close to unreadable to me, but that may be due to the scan resolution, I don't know. I have difficulty reading your values. Anyway, now I know them I included them into my drawing anyway so everything is fine on my part. Thanks very much again. :-) Btw., should I need a D2 for the buzzer, then what would it be? Would it also be a 1N4148? > Yep, it's fine. thanks very much. :-) -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paul.foerster@gmx.net Tue Nov 4 17:48:20 2014 Path: aioe.org!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Paul_F=C3=B6rster?= Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: PET Beeper Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 21:54:34 +0200 Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net KNiSRWKCoNneF/QrbMKCfgyo+KbhSfEJ+6CiD6QVyMT9yN3g== Cancel-Lock: sha1:nLlj5RKgy8PWYoZXFZx05fzVDr4= User-Agent: Unison/2.1.10 Xref: aioe.org comp.sys.cbm:14105 Hi Kev, On 2014-08-16 19:50:04 +0000, Paul Förster said: > Btw., should I need a D2 for the buzzer, then what would it be? Would > it also be a 1N4148? stupid question, sorry. :-( I just noticed it's a 1N4004. -- cul8er Paul paul.foerster@gmx.net